The following exchange between Martin Delany and Frederick Douglass, printed in the 1853 Frederick Douglass’ Journal, was one of several exchanges between these two African American leaders on Stowe’s Uncle Tom’s Cabin:

FREDERICK DOUGLASS, ESQ: DEAR SIR:-- I send you, according to promise, the second of my series of three letters. In saying in my letter of the 22d of March, that "Mrs. Stowe knows nothing about us--'the Free Colored People of the United States'--neither does any white person," I admit the expression to be ironical, and not intended to be taken in its literal sense; but I meant to be understood in so saying, that they know nothing, comparatively, about us, to the intelligent, reflecting, general observers among the Free Colored People of the North. And while I readily admit, that I "know nothing about Mrs. Stowe," I desire very much, to learn something of her; and as I could not expect it of Mrs. Stowe, to do so, were she in the country at present, I may at least ask it of brother Douglass, and hope that he will neither consider it derogatory to Mrs. Stowe's position nor attainments, to give me the required information concerning her. I go beyond the mere point of asking it as a favor; I demand it as a right--from you I mean--as I am an interested party, and however humble, may put such reasonable questions to the other party--looking upon you, in this case, as the attorney of said party--as may be necessary to the pending proceedings.

First, then, assertion; is not Mrs. Stowe a Colonizationist? having so avowed, or at least subscribed to, and recommended their principles in her great work of Uncle Tom.

Secondly; although Mrs. Stowe has ably, eloquently and pathetically portrayed some of the sufferings of the slave, is it any evidence that she has any sympathy for his thrice-morally crucified, semi-free brethren any where, or of the African race at all; when in the same world-renowned and widely circulated work, she sneers at Hayti--the only truly free and independent civilized black nation as such, or colored if you please, on the face of the earth--at the same time holding up the little dependent colonization settlement of Liberia in high estimation? I must be permitted to draw my own conclusions, when I say that I can see no other cause for this singular discrepancy in Mrs. Stowe's interest in the colored race, than that one is independent of, and the other subservient to, white men's power.

You will certainly not consider this idea farfetched, because it is true American policy; and I do not think strange, even of Mrs. Stowe, for following in a path so conspicuous, as almost to become the principal public highway. At least, no one will dispute its being a well-trodden path.

Thirdly; says brother Douglass, "Why, then, should any man object to the efforts of Mrs. Stowe, or any one else, who is moved to do anything in our behalf?" Bro. Douglass does not mean, and I will not so torture his language, as to make it imply that he means, that we should permit any body to undertake measures for our elevation. If so, those of Gurley, Pinney, and other colonizationists, should be acknowledged by us as acceptable measures. But are we to accept of colonization measures for our elevation?-- Certainly not, you will readily reply. Then, if that be true, and Mrs. Stowe be what I have predicated--which I hope her friends may prove, satisfactorily, to the contrary--we should reject the proffers of Mrs. Stowe, as readily as those of any other colonizationist. What! have our children tutored under colonization measures? God forbid! But why question Mrs. Stowe's measures? I will tell you. In May last, a colored man,--humble and common placed, to be sure--chanced to meet with Mrs. Stowe at the house of Mr. B----, in the city of N-----, State of N-----, where he had called with some articles for sale. He informs me that Mrs. Stowe was very indifferent towards him--more so, he thought, than any of the several persons present; and hearing him speak of his elevation in the United States, she asked, very seriously, what he expected to gain by any efforts that could be made here; and when he referred to the West Indies, and South America, &c., as an alternative, she at once asked him, "why he did not go to Liberia"--that moral and political bane of the colored people of this country--manifesting no sympathy whatever with the tortured feelings, crushed spirits and outraged homes of the Free Colored people, even the poor wretch who then stood before her. All this may have been, you may say, and still Mrs. Stowe be all that we could desire. It may be; but he who can believe such things, has stronger faith and confidence than I, in our American people. I must admit, that in them my confidence is terribly shattered. But, I will suppose a case as parallel with this one.

Mrs. Christian, of Vienna, in Austria, a highly intellectual, pious lady, writes a book--an excellent work--which is beginning to attract general public attention, for its portrayal of Hungarian wrongs. The deeply-moved sympathies of the lady's soul seems [sic] to teem through every chapter and page, exposing Austrian oppression, and, impliedly, advocating Hungarian rights--as would be reasonably supposed--the right to live freemen in Austria, or, at least, Hungary, their native part of the Empire. While the public attention is thus aroused, and that lady's book is almost the only topic of conversation among the people, from Paris to St. Petersburg, what would be thought of that lady if a poor Hungarian chanced to meet her, and she manifested no sympathy for him, the present representative in poverty and obscurity of the very people whose cause she professed to espouse; and when he claimed the right to live in Austria, she would unconcernedly ask him why he did not go to Siberia, the inhospitable criminal colony of Russia--answering very well to the Liberia of the American colonizationists, only not so cruel--since Russia sends only her criminals, mostly deserting soldiers and political offenders, while the United States Colonizationist Society forces innocent men, women and children to go, who never did harm to any one? Surely, according to the supposition predicated above, the Hungarians would have great cause for fearing, if not suspecting Mrs. Christian's fidelity to their cause.

Lastly; the Industrial Institution in contemplation by Mrs. Stowe, for the tuition of colored youth, proposes, as I understand it, the entire employment of white instructors. This, I strongly object to, as having a tendency to engender in our youth a higher degree of respect and confidence for white persons than for those of their own color; and creates the impression that colored persons are incapable of teaching, and only suited to subordinate positions. I have observed carefully, in all of my travels in our country--in all the schools that I visited--colored schools I mean--that in those taught in whole or part by colored persons, the pupils were always the most respectful towards me, and the less menial in their general bearing. I do not object to white teachers in part; but I do say, that wherever competent colored teachers could be obtained for any of the departments, they should be employed. Self-respect begets due obedience to others; and obedience is the first step to self-government among any people. Certainly, this should be an essential part of the training of our people, separated in interests as we have been, in this country. All the rude and abominable ideas that exist among us, in preferences for color, have been engendered from the whites; and in God's name, I ask them to do nothing more to increase this absurdity.

Another consideration, is, that all of the pecuniary advantages arising from this position go into the pockets of white men and women, thereby depriving colored persons, so far, of this livelihood. This is the same old song sung over again,

"Dimes and dollars--dollars and dimes;"

There is an old American story about an Indian and a white man, hunting game together; when they shot wild turkeys and buzzards, agreeing to divide, taking bird about; the white huntsman being the teller. In counting, the white man would say, alternately taking up either bird, "turkey for me, and buzzard for you--buzzard for you, and turkey for me." He growing tired of that method of counting the game, soon accosted his friend: "Uh! how's dis? all buzzard for me; but you never say, turkey for me, once." I feel somewhat as this Indian did; I am growing weary of receiving the buzzard as our share, while our tellers get all the turkeys. That "is not the way to 'tell' it" to me.

But I have not yet read the "Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin," and it may be that, in that, Mrs. S.--and I sincerely hope she has--has changed her policy, and renounced Colonization as she had made a public avowal of it; and apriori, just so far as her work received favor, her opinions on that subject will also be received.

I am aware that I am saying much more than is allowable, as I do not know of any of our professed anti-slavery friends who have taken public positions, who will permit any of their measures to be questioned by a colored person, except in the fullness of those great and good hearts--W. L. Garrison, Gerrit Smith, and that more than excellent woman, Mrs. Hester Moore, of Philadelphia, whose name you now scarcely ever hear of. She is an abolitionist of the Garrison and Smith sort; she loves the cause of Hungary for the sake of the Hungarian.

Let me say another thing, brother Douglass; that is, that no enterprize, institution, or anything else, should be commenced for us, or our general benefit, without first consulting us. By this, I mean, consulting the various communities of the colored people in the United States, by such a correspondence as should make public the measure, and solicit their general interests and coincidence. In this way, the intelligence and desires of the whole people would be elicited, and an intelligent understanding of their real desires obtained. Other than this, is treating us as slaves, and presupposing us all to be ignorant, and incapable of knowing our own wants. Many of the measures of our friends have failed from this very cause; and I am fearful that many more will fail.

In conclusion, brother Douglass, let me say, that I am the last person among us who would wilfully "strike a jarring note, or awaken a feeling of distrust," uncalled for; and although you may pronounce it "unwise, ungraceful, and sounding high and mighty on paper;" as much high respect as an humble simple-minded person should have for them, and as much honored as I should feel in having such names enrolled as our benefactors--associated with our degraded position in society; believe me when I tell you, that I speak it as a son, a brother, a husband and a father; I speak it from the consciousness of oppressed humanity, outraged manhood, of a degraded husband and disabled father; I speak it from the recesses of a wounded bleeding heart--in the name of my wife and children, who look to me for protection, as the joint partner of our humble fireside; I say, if this great fund and aid are to be sent here to foster and aid the schemes of the American Colonization Society, as I say to you--I say with reverence, and an humbleness of feeling, becoming my position, with a bowed-down head, that the benevolent, great and good, the Duchess of Sutherland, Mr. Gurney, their graces the Earl of Shaftesbury and the Earl of Carlisle; had far better retain their money in the Charity Fund of Stafford House, or any other place, than to send it to the United States for any such unhallowed purposes!-- No person will be more gratified, nor will more readily join in commendation, than I, of any good measure attempted to be carried out by Mrs. Stowe, if the contrary of her colonization principles be disproved. I will not accept chains from a king, any sooner than from a peasant; and never shall, willingly, submit to any measures for my own degradation. I am in hopes, brother Douglass, as every one else will understand my true position.

       M. R. DELANY.
    PITTSBURGH, April 18th, 1853

[Douglass to Delany]

The Letter of M. R. Delany.

---

This letter is premature, unfair, uncalled for, and, withal, needlessly long; but, happily, it needs not a long reply.

Can brother Delany be the writer of it?-- It lacks his generous spirit. The letter is premature, because it attacks a plan, the details of which are yet undefined. It is unfair, because it imputes designs (and replies to them) which have never been declared. It is uncalled for, because there is nothing in the position of Mrs. Stowe which should awaken against her a single suspicion of unfriendliness towards the free colored people of the United States; but, on the contrary, there is much in it to inspire confidence in her friendship.

The information for which brother Delany asks concerning Mrs. Stowe, he has given himself. He says she is a colonizationist; and we ask, what if she is?--names do not frighten us. A little while ago, brother Delany was a colonizationist. If we do not misremember, in his book he declared in favor of colonizing the eastern coast of Africa. Yet, we never suspected his friendliness to the colored people; nor should we feel called upon to oppose any plan he might submit, for the benefit of the colored people, on that account. We recognize friends wherever we find them.

Whoever will bring a straw's weight of influence to break the chains of our brother bondmen, or whisper one word of encouragement and sympathy to our proscribed race in the North, shall be welcomed by us to that philanthropic field of labor. We shall not, therefore, allow the sentiments put in the brief letter of GEORGE HARRIS, at the close of Uncle Tom's Cabin, to vitiate forever Mrs. Stowe's power to do us good. Who doubts that Mrs. Stowe is more of an abolitionist now than when she wrote that chapter?-- We believe that lady to be but at the beginning of her labors for the colored people of this country.

Brother Delany says, nothing should be done for us, or commenced for us, without "consulting us." Where will he find "us" to consult with? Through what organization, or what channel could such consulting be carried on? Does he mean by consulting "us" that nothing is to be done for the improvement of the colored people in general, without consulting each colored man in the country whether it shall be done? How many, in this case, constitute "us?" Evidently, brother Delany is a little unreasonable here.

Four years ago, a proposition was made, through the columns of The North Star, for the formation of a "National League," and a constitution for said League was drawn up, fully setting forth a plan for united, intelligent and effective co-operation on the part of the free colored people of the United States--a body capable of being "consulted." The colored people, in their wisdom, or in their indifference, gave the scheme little or no encouragement--and it failed. Now, we happen to know that such an organization as was then proposed, was enquired for, and sought for by Mrs. Harriet Beecher Stowe; she wished, most of all, to hear from such a body what could be done for the free colored people of the United States? But there was no such body to answer.

The fact is, brother Delany, we are a disunited and scattered people, and very much of the responsibility of this disunion must fall upon such colored men as yourself and the writer of this. We want more confidence in each other, as a race--more self-forgetfulness, and less disposition to find fault with well-meant efforts for our benefit. Mr. Delany knows that, at this moment, he could call a respectable Convention of the free colored people of the Northern States. Why don't he issue his call? and he knows, too, that, were we to issue such a call, it would instantly be regarded as an effort to promote the interests of our paper. This consideration, and a willingness on our part to occupy an obscure position in such a movement, has led us to refrain from issuing a call. The Voice of the Fugitive, we observe, has suggested the holding, in New York, of a "World's Convention" during the "World's Fair." A better proposition, we think, would be to hold, in that city, a "National Convention" of the colored people. Will not friend Delany draw up a call for such a Convention, and send it to us for publication?

But to return. Brother Delany asks, if we should allow "any body" to undertake measures for our elevation? YES, we answer--any body, even a slaveholder. Why not? Then says brother Delany, why not accept the measures of "Gurley and Pinney?" We answer, simply because their measures do not commend themselves to our judgment. That is all. If "Gurley and Pinney" would establish an industrial college, where colored young men could learn useful trades, with a view to their becoming useful men and respectable citizens of the United States, we should applaud them and co-operate with them.

We don't object to colonizationists because they express a lively interest in the civilization and Christianization of Africa; nor because they desire the prosperity of Liberia; but it is because, like brother Delany, they have not sufficient faith in the people of the United States to believe that the black man can ever get justice at their hands on American soil. It is because they have systematically, and almost universally, sought to spread their hopelessness among the free colored people themselves; and thereby rendered them, if not contented with, at least resigned to the degradation which they have been taught to believe must be perpetual and immutable, while they remain where they are. It is because, having denied the possibility of our elevation here, they have sought to make good that denial by encouraging the enactment of laws subjecting us to the most flagrant outrages, and stripping us of all the safeguards necessary to the security of our liberty, persons and property.-- We say all this of the American Colonization Society; but we are far from saying this of many who speak and wish well to Liberia. As to the imputation that all the pecuniary profit arising out of the industrial scheme will probably pass into the pockets of the whites, it will be quite time enough to denounce such a purpose when such a purpose is avowed. But we have already dwelt too long on a letter which perhaps carries its own answer with it.

(Frederick Douglass' Paper, 6 May 1853, pp. 2,3)

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